johncip's Journal, 29 Jul 19

Like many (all?) of us I have plenty of opportunity to think about weight loss, overeating, willpower, and the like. I mostly don't post journal entries about it, but sometimes will comment on others', and the comments get very long. So I'll make this one a journal entry.

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This isn't really a problem on FS, but on the wider internet there's a movement to label any sort of portion control as part of a toxic "diet culture" which causes eating disorders and normalizes mistreatment of overweight people. Also, what I'll call "the boring diets" -- counting calories, counting macros & calories, counting points, even just rough portion control, are never really fashionable, except maybe with bodybuilders.

Why is that? I (somewhat cynically, I'll admit) think part of the reason is that making the conversation too strongly about excess intake makes people feel like it's all their fault. And what I mainly want to say here is that it isn't. (But we should distinguish between fault and responsibility. It is indeed our responsibility to manage our own weights, because no one can do it for us.)

Whose fault then? Food comapnies? Well, yes, and no. Nobody's force-feeding us. But our food environment, as a result of many years and billions spent figuring out how to make food look, taste, and ultimately sell better, has become very hedonistic. Especially when it comes to processed food, and chain restaurant food. It's rare that somebody in their home kitchen would sneak sugar into a savory dish, then fry it, freeze it, and fry it again. But many chain restaurant appetizers are made that way. We've also become masters of synthetic flavoring. Frito-Lay had "biscuits & gravy" chips on the shelves not long ago. I thought they tasted great. But isn't it a little strange to have one food taste like a completely different one?

As processed food has gotten better, our produce, by and large, has gotten worse. We kill chickens here at a few months old. It's bird veal. My Italian family used to farm, and my grandfather, after coming here, wouldn't eat American chicken because it grossed him out so much. Old recipes for chicken used to just call for salt and pepper -- who'd want to eat it that way now? But apparently chicken used to taste like something.

Apricot season is over, but you can still buy them. The out-of-season ones taste like soap and are the size and texture of an apple. I don't know what kind of mutant trees they're coming from. I've heard that out of season tomatoes are grown in what is basically fertilized sand. And they're of course picked green & artificially ripened, to enhance shelf life. Etc. We mostly don't breed things for taste, outside of a few specialized crops, like coffee beans or wine grapes.

It's possible that our practice of fortifying staple foods with vitamins & minerals they don't already have also has a bad effect on our palates. The point of a palate, after all, is to know what nutrients foods have (which we experience as flavor), but we break that link on both the flavor side and on the nutrient side. (If you're interested more in this vein, I strongly recommend Mark Schatzker's "The Dorito Effect" and David Kessler's "The End of Overeating." Also Eric Schlosser's "Fast Food Nation.")

In "Supernormal Stimuli," Deirdre Barrett talks about how the biologist Niko Tinbergen was able to make plaster "eggs" that birds would sit on instead of their own. The eggs just had to be painted a brighter shade than the birds' real eggs. So it is with a lot of modern food. We don't need it, but damn is it good.

And we just aren't wired to say no to the stuff our lizard brain think that it needs to survive. We do have willpower & reason, to let us correct our short-term instincts when they put us in long-term danger. But losing weight is painful, more painful than maintaining it. For many in the wider public, once they've gotten past a certain size, they don't see fixing it as worth the effort.

To bring it back to blame -- 40% of America didn't wake up one day and decide that they wanted to be so heavy it impacts their health. And even though it's a personal crusade of mine to control my eating to the point where I have the body composition I want, if I'm being honest, I don't think a society-wide cure for obesity will come in the form of individual personal responsibility. We've already lost that war. I think that if a solution comes, it will resemble what happened with cigarettes. A generation of smokers didn't quit en masse. Instead, marketing regulations led to increased awareness & changes in the culture, which led to more regulations, and more changes, etc. Over the years, fewer people *started* smoking than in previous generations, which means fewer people have had to quit.

As far as policy goes, I think more labeling is always good, like the new requirement that US chain restaurants list calories on their menus. (Besides the main benefit, in some cases it's also led to restaurants reformulating items to have less embarrassing calorie counts.) Also, all of these recent changes to nutrition facts labels: https://www.fda.gov/food/food-labeling-nutrition/changes-nutrition-facts-label (trans fat, added sugar, more realistic serving sizes...)

This is worth a read, though I think things have improved a hair since it was written: https://www.motherjones.com/food/2012/08/schools-limit-campus-junk-food-have-lower-obesity-rates/ (Soft drink companies love marketing to kids, and although they claim to avoid marketing to children under 12, they still do. And nowadays they market more aggressively to Black & Latino kids.)

It's worth noting too that alcohol companies make most of their money on alcoholics, and casinos on gambling addicts. I'm not opposed to anyone making a buck, but we're in the midst of a public health crisis of enormous scale, which has to be taken into account when setting policy.

I don't really have a conclusion. This post is already very long, and writing about food is making me hungry. Thanks if you read this far. I mainly wanted to say that, although we get fat from eating too much, we eat too much because our food has changed, and our palates with it. I hope we can reverse that somewhat, and prevent some of the pain I've witnessed in family & friends, and myself.

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Comments 
Very good point comparing food regulations to tobacco regulations. I never thought of that in that way. What a thought provoking analogy. And you do see that trend with food...there is an increased awareness for millennials and generationally, you see people "quitting" processed food. I was told that the processed food wave came about as more and more people spread out and as women entered the workforce. Quick meals and being able to ship products is what brought it on. But, as with everything, there are pros and cons and continuous improvement is needed - especially when companies get over excited and overly innovative. They beat trends to death! lol. American food is very salt based. I find that many friends and associates who are heavy with the salt don't have what I would consider a mature palette. Also, I find there are many who rely on processed and pre-made food because they do not know how to cook at home. If you know you can make food better at home - why would you eat what someone else made, right? I have seen this trend among friends.  
29 Jul 19 by member: AboutMyTribe
Very thought-provoking post, thanks John. I am glad for the label regulations, without them I wouldn't have understood the carbage I was eating. 
29 Jul 19 by member: gz9gjg
40 years of government, doctors, and media telling us to eat less fat, has driven the food industry to develop substitutes; thus the inclusion of sugar (in its 60 or so forms) in practically every processed food. I was shocked to find sugar in the ingredients list for italian sausage. Changing to keto WOE to reverse T2D really opened my eyes to the hidden carbs and sugars in most pre-prepared foods. 
29 Jul 19 by member: gz9gjg
Now that I know what calories are (been knowing for the last 2 yrs of my life) I’m glad restaurants estimate the calories in a meal 💕 
29 Jul 19 by member: rosio19
...That's another good point @Rosio and @Gz9gjg... There are labels, but how many people understand them and use them as a tool? Labels and regulations telling chain restaurant to report calories for the win. Education is the next step.  
29 Jul 19 by member: AboutMyTribe
I used to think my lucky friends and I used to eat the same foods and I was the unlucky fat one. Now that I’m thin we eat the same foods and wow I finally understood why they are thin, it’s not about the type of food..IT IS ABOUT THE PORTION. 😱 
29 Jul 19 by member: rosio19
I never noticed that before calorie counting, fs and portion control. 
29 Jul 19 by member: rosio19
Portion control is what normal size people do without thinking about it 
29 Jul 19 by member: rosio19
I love eating whatever I want to and making sure to burn more than I eat. And I love that there are calories listed on menus. I was super busy at work on Tuesday because I had so much to wrap up prior to vacation. I didn't get a chance to eat until 4:30 p.m. I know a lot of people do IF- but that was a LONG time for me- like 20 hours. I swung into Burger King to grab something on my way to the gym and was so hungry that I wanted this new King's Bacon something or other. The calories were over 1000. Yes I could have fit it in easily-but I knew that I'd want to eat again after the gym with my kids. Seeing the calories kept me in check. I opted for a whopper jr with cheese which was plenty to be filling and get in an awesome workout. I don't really have a point to this comment other than to agree that the calories labeling is awesome and such a help. Without a scale- none of it is 100% accurate- but definitely better than nothing.  
29 Jul 19 by member: davidsprincess
@Gz9gig- carbage! @Johncip - Interesting post --- but Federal regulations have contributed significantly to the epidemic in obesity that we currently have. In the 70s, McGovern chaired the committee that eventually came out with the recommendation of low fat high carb as a daily food guide. Various societies agreed and promoted this diet for heart disease (the theory of fat, cholesterol, heart disease and Ancel Keyes is its own fascinating story) and cancer. The food industry (yes, for profit) eventually realized they could make money off of selling low fat food, and with the "Heart Healthy" endorsement of the American Heart Association, they replaced and lowered fat in food. With what? Basically process carbs (sugar). (Tangentially we could also add in the story of corn subsidies that lead to an over production of corn which gets us to HFCS, but never mind). In very, very, broad brush strokes, this is why we're here. Have we been outright lied to and manipulated, or have these recommendations been simply flawed, misguided attempts to increase public good? Probably a combination of both. I grew up in this era. Certain foods were looked upon as sure death. Bacon! Eggs! Steak! All would kill you. Margarine had to be substituted for real butter or you would die. A glass of whole milk was poison, you had to drink skim milk. (Alright, you wouldn't die immediately, but these food were considered absolutely unhealthy and to be avoided.) And it's not like my parents were uneducated. My dad was an MD, and these were the views of the medical establishment. And what was to be substituted? Basically processed carbs which had to be good for you, because it was low fat. A very sad state of affairs. But, we were following the guidelines from the government and the medical community. So, finally, Federal guidelines are great, if they're correct. In the end though, it's still personal responsibility. You have to educate yourself as best you can and make the best decisions possible.  
29 Jul 19 by member: HardDaysKnight
I had lunch at Cheesecake Factory the other day (not my choice) and was shocked by the number of calories in some of their meals. 2000, 2500... Even if you only eat a half portion, you've still overeaten. I do, however, love that chains now must list calories. If we're going to eat there, at least we can more easily make better choices. 
29 Jul 19 by member: shirfleur 1
2000 for me would not be overeating. Or even 2500 if I was still looking for a deficit since I lift every day. But yes- that's would have to be your main meal for the day for most people.  
29 Jul 19 by member: davidsprincess
lol....educate the best you can! Yes...using research, labels, etc...from PhDs, MDs, funded by the government.  
29 Jul 19 by member: AboutMyTribe
Sorry...I not into the FS debates...but I just couldn't help myself 
29 Jul 19 by member: AboutMyTribe
That is great information. I look at labels and am amazed at all the hidden things. But knowledge is power. 
29 Jul 19 by member: tatauu22
HardDaysKnight, there's also the demonization of sodium. Very few people have sodium - sensitive high blood pressure, yet "everyone knows" sodium is "bad". I read of so many people complaining about fuzzy thinking, headaches, dizziness; I think frequently it's due to low electrolytes. Exacerbated by the " drink more water" edicts - which flushes more electrolytes. I eat keto, so I have had to learn to pay attention to this, make sure I get enough sodium and potassium. 
29 Jul 19 by member: gz9gjg
Gz9gjg...I don't think sodium is demonized. Many things on the periodic table are micronutrients that the body needs to function optimally. I think "too much" is what the issue is since often times this micronutrient is abundant. Even with potassium, many people do not get enough....but there is such thing as having too much of it especially for certain conditions.  
29 Jul 19 by member: AboutMyTribe
nice read 
29 Jul 19 by member: AdaOke
Nice post. Love the book recommendations. I am going to check those out. In the books I have read lately (mostly on low carb) I have come to see that we have changed our behaviour vis a vie food a couple of times in the recent past. The low fat, low salt hypotheses for instance came out of a huge national scare about heart attacks, and Eisenhower's heart attack was the catalyst. The changes made in recommendations by the government resonated with the public and impacted nutrition and choices after the 1960s. Food companies changed their products along with it. So if it has happened before, it can happen again. We just have to reach a point where people believe sincerely that this is a crisis. And I do not think we are there. Modern medicine is very good and have been able to keep population healthy and alive in spite of it getting fatter. Maybe new right now is how sick children are getting due to overeating early in their lives. Will that be what turns it around?  
29 Jul 19 by member: liv001
@Gz9gig -- agreed, salt is good --- especially on keto; "The Salt Fix" addresses some of the history of salt recommendations (again McGovern and his committee) --- I'm not sure what the current recommendation is. See KenDBerryMD (youtube) interview the author (James J. DiNicolantonio, MD) 
29 Jul 19 by member: HardDaysKnight

     
 

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