moopie321's Journal, 15 Aug 19

I could never get into happy baby. Even thin. Goals... 

I’ve read about autophagy and how the body recycles abnormal cells; what’s is the fat percentage threshold to activate fasting over starving? Thanks for answering me btw.  

How many calories/day is Fung’s fast? 

:) yes when you get there I want a pic! #happybabygoal! 

Dang, guess I'm mostly only a really laid back and friendly guy because of the carbs. :P 

You will definitely break down muscle if you're not taking in protein and doing resistance training. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29352654?fbclid=IwAR1Fd_TKNHngom7t_RpO4wNcAzOg1gWgTYO_tOB7GJDxGSEgAEGRO8Ou2Gk 

And in that study, the people weren't even fasting, they were still eating and supplementing protein but since their energy intake was so low and they didn't do RT, they lost an average of 1 pound of lean mass per week while the ones who did RT(resistance training) didn't. 

Always go with science over pseudoscience. 

🤔 I think if we get a definition of a fung fast we can see if his models fits the study. For some reason I can’t copy the link to view the study. Fung defines words differently from what I’m used to, so maybe if his fasts includes plenty of protein and high enough in calories, his fasts may spare lean muscle mass? 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29352654?fbclid=IwAR1Fd_TKNHngom7t_RpO4wNcAzOg1gWgTYO_tOB7GJDxGSEgAEGRO8Ou2Gk  

^Same link, maybe easier to copy. 

😈 I think food in general helps stabilize moods. Lol people who eat are less hangry, but I have nothing for people who are just angry. 😡  

Thanks for the link, it’s pretty much what you said. Preserving lean muscle mass is important to me because I like food.  

Sooo many benefits to lean mass. :) 

Fung's recommends water fast with electrolytes only. He suggest that if you need to you can start with broths till you get good enough to do just water. I think if one thinks that fung recommends protien in fast you are not quite understanding his argument. He runs fasts with his diabetes patients to help them lose weight. I recommend listening to him and see what you think 

But I doubt his patients even do resistance training. I mean does he even lift? He is obviously not concerned about lean mass loss. I think the difference is that he works with patients who are morbidly obese who just need to get the weight off as soon as possible, while we are nowhere near that anymore so we're more interested in shaping our bodies. 

Liv, https://www.dietdoctor.com/intermittent-fasting “Fasting differs from starvation in one crucial way: control. Starvation is the involuntary absence of food for a long time, leading to severe suffering or even death.” - Fung I don’t know if the body is smart enough to know if food isn’t available because the person is choosing not to eat or not eating because there is no food. Physiologically I would think the body’s response would be the same. The way the starvation diet is defined sounds identical to Fung’s fasting because the participants sign up willingly and the researchers will not withhold food from the participants if they are dying. It was done for a only a 10 day period not a prolonged period of time. The participants were obese so they had plenty of fat stored. “When we eat, more food energy is ingested than can immediately be used. Some of this energy must be stored away for later use.” This is by Fung. This also sounds like CICO but instead of calling it calories he called it “energy.” A calorie is a unit of energy. Fung even talks about “de-novo lipogenesis”, “making new fat from carbs”, something 😈 posted about yesterday. Fung says there is almost no limit on how much fat a body can create. That would make sense too, if we are constantly taking in more energy than we are using the excess gets stored as fat and we can get really fat. He doesn’t talking about lipolysis, the breakdown of dietary fat. Dietary fat gets broken down to fatty acids and the excess is stored as body fat. Excess dietary fat can lead to excess body fat as well. Fung sounds less crazy here. 🤪🤪🤪 His fasts can be a few hrs (time between meals) or a few days. I have nothing against people using Fung’s fasting or Yang’s starvation diet as a method of calorie control. It’s up to the dieter whether or not it’s sustainable and affects the quality of life. If my lean muscle mass is being compromised for faster weight loss, I would prioritize a slower weight loss by eating more and doing resistance training so my metabolism (my ability to eat without gaining fat) isn’t dropping with my weight. I 💕💕💕 food and that’s how I got to like 180 lbs. A morbidly obese person might prioritize differently to get to a healthier weight first to reduce other health risks. Thank you Liv!  

Fung believes we store energy and use energy for sure. I think everyone believes that. He thinks that hormones are the main agents in the process of storing and using that makes it different from CICO which is more mechanical Out and In 

Without the extra energy or calories, how will hormones cause weight gain?  

I agree insulin allow for uses/storage of energy...