Draglist's Journal, 07 Dec 13

VERY INTERESTING findings today! First off, still at 211.6, largely for regularity issues. That's temporary. Today is my indulgence day, so will spend some extra calories at a Christmas Party tonight. But check this out...

Keld turned me on to the idea of eating in a shorter daily window to increase the fat burn during resting times. He also recommended working out during this fasted state. This is my second day of doing the 8/16 fasting. I've been sleeping pretty poorly this past week due to staying up working too late. So I caught up on some sleep last night. To bed at 1:44 am and up at 11:50 am. So a solid ten hours of sleep and then I was essentially at breakfast time at noon anyway. Before I ate, though, I decided to get on my treadmill and do my daily workout. Here is where things got VERY INTERESTING and tied together so much I've learned lately.

First a touch of history. As I posted in another thread up here lately, I've continued to increase my fitness as measured by how much faster and longer I have to walk on my treadmill (and at a higher uphill angle) in order to keep my heart rate at the optimal fat burn beats per minute (for me) of 118. I set the machine at 4 miles per hour at the top elevation angle and keep going until I hit my 118 bpm. Then when I start to go into the cardio zone of 119 bpm or above (for me), I drop down the mph by one tenth at a time to get back into the fat burning zone. Lately, I have been going for nearly half the workout time at both top settings. After about 15-20 minutes, my body starts to increase my bpm into the cardio zone, and I get 'hot' and start sweating. I then slowly have to decrease the speed to stay in the fat burning zone. I usually end up at 3.6 or 3.7 mph to keep the heart rate where I want it. Been very happy with that.

BUT.. here's what I have finally gotten through my fat head: What was happening was that I was using up all the available carbohydrates in my body during that first part of the exercise session (before I started getting hot and 'turning on the furnace.') When I started getting hotter, sweating more, and when the heart rate started going up, I was actually converting to burning the fat in my body due to the depletion of the available carbs. It hit me like a lightning bolt! So back to today, and how Keld's recommendation and my recent research tied it all together.

Keld said that he worked out in a fasted state in the morning before he eats the first meal of the day (he goes 11 to 7 as his period; I'm going to do noon to 8, but same diff). The theory behind the daily 8/16 fast is that you are generating insulin for a shorter time, then your body uses up the food (carbs first), then it enters a post-absorptive state, a fasting period where your body is burning fat to maintain its basal metabolic rate (just to keep the basic functions going). [Folks may need to check that last sentence for full accuracy... I've only read this a few times and I need to get it locked into my noggin better. But the general result is the same, even if I messed up a term or two.]

So, realizing this, I figured that at noon after this 16 hour fast, I would not have the carbohydrate buildup in my body that would allow me to stay "cool" for the first 15-20 minutes of my workout. If the theory held, I should enter that "furnace" state earlier and my bpm would start to go up (which I surmise is the extra work needed to convert the fat to energy -- carbs are an easy conversion). Guess what happened? After about FIVE minutes at 4 mph at the top elevation angle, I was at my bpm of 118 and starting to go over it! I got HOT faster and started sweating earlier. Then something REALLY amazing happened: my bpm skyrocketed into the cardio zone, hitting 125 bpm for no more work than I usually do (and this was after getting tons of rest -- 10 hours' worth)! I had to bump the mph down by a tenth. Then I exceeded 120 bpm again and again. I had to take the mph down to 3.1 mph at one point. I have not had to walk that slowly to maintain my target fat burning heart rate for MONTHS! Once my bod caught back up, I was able to bump the mph back up to 3.3, 3.4, and finally 3.5 mph to keep the heart rate at 118 mph.

But what I am convinced of is that I was BURNING FAT for 30-35 minutes where formerly (I now realize) I was burning carbs for 15-20 minutes and then burning fat for 15-20 minutes! So if this all holds, I will have essentially DOUBLED the fat burning effect of my workout for the same time period!

My only challenge is that it will be hard for me to do this schedule at work (easy on the weekends). I have a gym at work now but I'm changing jobs on the 16th and I need to get a look at my new duties and schedule (luckily, the building has a nice gym facility).

THANK YOU, KELD! Even after 18 months of great success, I am still learning new things every day! Have a great weekend, everyone! bp
96.0 kg Lost so far: 51.4 kg.    Still to go: 3.0 kg.    Diet followed: 100%.

View Diet Calendar, 07 December 2013:
2522 kcal Fat: 114.73g | Prot: 72.04g | Carbs: 277.68g.   Lunch: Navitas Naturals Organic Raw Chia Seeds, Safeway Cafe Bowl Italiano Salad. Dinner: Jack Daniel's Whiskey, Sugar Cookies (Includes Vanilla), Brownie, Cream Cheese, Keebler Club Crackers Original, Meatballs with Sauce (Mixture), Ambrosia, Yoder's Sweet Mashed Potatoes, Sliced Ham (Regular, Approx. 11% Fat), Carrot Cake with Icing, Pretzels, Meat Pie. Snacks/Other: Apples. more...
2681 kcal Exercise: Walking (moderate) - 3/mph - 5 minutes, Walking (brisk) - 4/mph - 51 minutes, Resting - 13 hours and 4 minutes, Sleeping - 10 hours. more...
steady weight


Wow! That is amazing, Bill, and so insightful. I hadn't thought of it like that. But, now that you mention it, it takes me awhile in my walk to start sweating (getting in the hot zone). I don't actually use a heart rate thingy... but I do have one. Maybe I should break that out of storage. But, as I was saying, now that you mention it, this past week when I've had to put a few late-night workouts in (only an hour or two before bed), it's really done the most for me (bigger, badder weight-loss). Almost like I used up all my carbs before bed, so all night long I was burning fat. Hmmm. That's really something to think about.  
07 Dec 13 by member: Rob.c.weiss
Wow... I'm sitting here thinking this through even more. And that makes so much sense. Explains some things I've noticed recently and didn't think twice about. For instance, this past week I worked out 3 times at night. All three of those days I was great on my diet (in calories and macro-nutrients). The first two times I lost a pound or more the next day. The third time I didn't. In fact, I gained 0.2. But that third night, after working out, I had a lot of calories left (and was way-high in protein), and so I ate some carb-heavy tamales. My macros for the day were still in-line, and I still kept my calories in-line -- and I didn't have that much of the tamales (only about 130 cals worth). But, if you think about it in the terms you laid out... the first two nights, I used up all my available carbs, and burned real fat all night long. The third night, I used up my available carbs, but then ate some, so boom, now there were available carbs again. That night, little or no fat was burned. Wow! Now that I know this, I think I'm going to **try** to work out at night more often (I'd read recently that it is actually better for you, anyway). And I'm going to be sure not to take anything but my low-carb protein shake after (I did that all three nights). AMAZING! I'm excited to see how this shakes out. THANKS, BILL!! 
07 Dec 13 by member: Rob.c.weiss
Yes, I recommend the heart rate monitor to stay in your target heart rate zone (you can Google for best ways to determine yours). It's because working out too hard zaps you into the cardio zone where the body uses the available carbs because they metabolize easier and are more readily available (for 'sprinting' after gazelles or away from lions! LOL). The fat burning zone (65 percent of your maximum heart rate) is ideal for long, arduous workouts (long term tracking of our prey)... The body will use the fat for this so that it can retain some of those carbs for any quick sprints we need to take... We are back to our caveman days! 
07 Dec 13 by member: Draglist
That's fascinating on the late night workouts, Rob! I may need to do something like that. I have a new job coming up that I will need to learn the ins and outs of in terms of when I can slip off for a workout. Currently, I work out at 4pm at the end of the day at work or at 5pm when I work from home. But I need to rethink those anyway because they are done right in the middle of my eating period... I now (think) I know that it's not optimal for me to do that. Looking forward to your findings! 
07 Dec 13 by member: Draglist
The day we STOP learning is a sad day, right? Let's never ever get there. What you are saying makes perfect sense in my world, and you have even seen different sides and advantages that I haven't. I only do strength training and long walks (relatively quick paced, but neverbjogging or running), but I think I reap some of the same benefits. I always walk and work out in my fasted state, and the results are amazing. I'm more than proud to have inspired you with this. You're doing amazingly well. Keep it up and stay in touch.  
07 Dec 13 by member: kingkeld
Wow that is fascinating...Now I know why I did better on the treadmill when I walked before I even had a cup of coffee..I shall go back to that and pronto...Thanks for this info...It really does help to have buddies to share what they learn...Have a great evening...and good luck with the new job..Bren 
07 Dec 13 by member: BHA
Absolutely, Keld! I love to learn something new every day. I'm really looking forward to seeing some accelerated results. Looking forward to hitting my maintenance time as you have! AND... I need to start to work in some weight training. Your comment on looking good in clothes with cardio but looking good in the nude with weight training makes so much sense. And I have lost some strength over the years for sure. Got to fix that!  
07 Dec 13 by member: Draglist
Good luck with this, Bren! Sometimes it's right in front of us and it takes a unique perspective to see what is actually happening!  
07 Dec 13 by member: Draglist
Bill, if you start weight training, you're going to beat me to that 180 goal! Hey, something I did tonight ought to really put this thing to the test. As it turns out, I had kind of a heavy day for me. Beef Stew at lunch, and we had dinner at the seafood place with shrimp scampi, baked potato with butter and sour cream, even one of those buttery biscuit things. A pretty heavy day for me. But, I didn't have any carbs after 8PM. Then I went to go do my workout (because it took me an hour to replace a battery in my heart monitor thing -- waterproof, and laymen aren't supposed to do it; ugh!), I didn't get to it till about 10. I just finished it: 30 mins of cardio (about half of that in the "fat burning" zone) and an hour of weights. Came home tonight only to a protein shake. If I still lose weight tomorrow, even with the heavy day I had today, I'm going to agree big-time that there's something to this. I may even check out my muscle / fat progress (I usu only do that every couple of weeks). Crossing my fingers! 
07 Dec 13 by member: Rob.c.weiss
Good luck on those readings! I just got back from a Christmas party where Santa would say I was DEFINITELY not a good boy! But it was my indulgence day. I know Keld says you can't go hog wild with bad food and I pretty much did. Will be interesting to see my weigh in tomorrow morning. 
07 Dec 13 by member: Draglist
LOLOL. I know how it is. We're a fairly hard-wired lot. We like what we like. I know that's pretty much true of everyone on this site, otherwise we wouldn't be here. But that's what indulgence days are for. Right? Heh. Hey, I should add to what I wrote above that my calories / macros were still ok... even with all that stuff. But the kind of day I don't normally lose weight on. 
07 Dec 13 by member: Rob.c.weiss
Hey, Bill and Keld, the results are in... I lost 1.4 lbs today. :D Woo hoo!!! I have another *test* lined up. I do my official weekly weigh-ins on Wednesdays (kind of away from the weekend). My last official weigh-in was 236, and I'm projected to get to 231.5 with my famous (or infamous) projections. But, usually if Sunday comes, and I'm this far away from it (it's almost 3 pounds from where I'm at today: 234.2) I don't usually make it. I'm going to continue to do this for the next few days and see what happens. 
08 Dec 13 by member: Rob.c.weiss
That's great! I just got back from an AMAZING brunch in Elkridge, Maryland, in a place that was built in the 1770s... SO awesome. http://www.elkridgefurnaceinn.com/index.php No doubt that will add a bit to the party food I ate last night, but that's it for the indulgence and back to the grind starting now... (until my son gets home from Japan next weekend!) 
08 Dec 13 by member: Draglist


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